when you say

"for a friend I know that has a LPN degree, but doesn't want to work, has the medicaid card, for her and HER kids, and got a free gastric bypass. Cha Ching."

I'm pretty sure that if you are going for a very serious surgery such as this, you probably have quite a few health issues. Maybe this person took this step so she WOULD be able to work and use her LPN degree. Are you upset that she doesn't work or got a gastric bypass for free or that her kids can get healthcare for free while she deals with this?

for a friend I know that has a LPN degree, but doesn't want to work, has the medicaid card, for her and HER kids, and got a free gastric bypass. Cha Ching.

So puh-lease....give me a break.

If they can pass any bill they want thru congress...this is just the beginning. What happens say if they passed a bill..that said you were only allowed one kid then snip snip...then I supposed most people would bitch and say it is unconstitutional?

All I am saying is...I am opposed to how things are pushed thru (despite original votes) ...this has been something that has been shoved down our throats for some time now, to where those that were against it have buckled and gave in. What about other issues at hand....the economy and jobs....alot of other important issues have taken a back seat, b/cause this is all the government can seem to work on right now.

You must not be from Wisconsin. In the last ten years we've recalled a state rep for going against his word to his constituents on a stadium deal...AND in my city/county we've had our school district after being told "NO" on a referrendum wanting to raise our taxes push ANOTHER referrendum through 2 months later.

If you were from Wisconsin...you'd probably be used to the government 'pushing things through' by now.

I vote for politicians...because I Stupidly believe that the politicians run this country...even though all signs prove that the special interest groups and lobbyists run it. The sad part is we can't even get our country back due to the Patriot Act. Any comments made now that are 'anti government' can be seen as terrorist threats...even some of those made in my previous post. Thanks W!

And no I'm not a dyed in the wool democrat either...I'm a meocrat...I vote for whoever's gonna screw me the least...that's why I don't vote for lobbyists!

Mike

then why in the world did THEY all opt out? The bill passed only includes the masses (yes, that's all of us) - they aren't following their own laws - they wrote themselves out!

If it's all that and a peanut butter sandwich then why would they opt out?


Vicki & Cami

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Cami-Chatter/466519090190?ref=sgm

http://www.flickr.com/photos/scribbledpaper/

I will have to go back to work to afford the taxes that I will be hit with ......I'm not old enough for medicare..had enough to live on.......and a tiny pension...( I had a very physically demanding job that took a toll on my tiny frame) I pay for health insurance......have what is considered a cadillac plan.....will be hit with a huge tax on the premiums.....

I just want to know why and when it suddenly became "wrong" to work hard, accumulate what you could and then be able to enjoy your years of leisure?

Because I have done that, now I am being penalized because others have not.

far more than their neighbors plight. They treasure their vitriol against their opposing side of the government like it's the family jewels and LOVE the feeling of being united with other like minded people against the EVIL Us Government. The vast majority of them don't even truly comprehend what they are b*tching about, they just know that the guys on TV, "Their" side's guys, told them this is BAD BAD BAD and they fall in line and b*tch away. As long as they are not effected, they don't give a rat's a** about the people who can't go to the Dr when their kids are sick, or for a routine checkup, because of the astronomical cost. I am not talking about the big, unsual medical crises, I am talking about the normal, average, everyday routine care that OUR people in this country go without.
The insurance companies and drug companies absolutely RUN the show, and they know it, and lots of people in this country know it, and lots of others know it and pretend they don't, and still others know it and just don't give a crap.
Americans may pull together in an emergency and help others out, but when it comes to the day to day grind, they are furious that even a penny of "their" money would be spent on someone else who needs healthcare and can't afford it.

Cathy
when she first came home

but those who opposed the new law are still going to ignore what you said. Instead they will listen to the Glenn Becks and Rush Limbaughs who make tens of millions of dollars each year spreading scare tactics and working for their masters.





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so, IMO, the argument opponents are making that the government doesn't have the right to make them buy something is nonsense. And the politicians who are saying it know it's nonsense. And you're completely right about auto insurance.

Even worse, all of those state Attorney Generals who have filed suit know that the law is not unconstitutional because of the Commerce Clause of the Constitution and thus they know they are filing frivolous lawsuits, but they also know it will get them votes so they can run for Governor in their states. Talk about a waste of taxpayer money.





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having it.

I can not understand the nastiness and vitriol that this entire healthcare debate has stirred up. The UK system is not a socialist, inadequate, 2nd rate, unprofessional, non-accountable burden. It works hand in hand with private corporations, insurance companys and pharmaceutical industries, all of which enjoy huge profits off the NHS. You pay your weekly National Insurance contibution and every single individual regardless of income is treated equally and without prejudice. You are not judged on your status in society, by your ability to pay or your medical history.

Doctors and medical professionals are paid extremely well. We get a fantastic standard of healthcare for a third of what it costs here in the USA. If you don't believe that the Health Insurance industry is not behind the misinformation and fear instilled into this debate, then you are being naive. I have used both systems, and am incredulous how it is just accepted that health insurance and pharmaceutical companys run the show, and not the needs of average, every day people....your neighbors and/or family members. I have what is considered 'great' health insurance because I work for a large corporation, but when I had to use it for medical surgery's after a vehicle accident, I was out of pocket by a large amount due to the under insured idiot that hit me. Americans do not get what they pay for.

I am of the opinion that if it doesn't affect you personally, then you probably won't care what happens to those who are excluded or broken from this current system. There is still a lot of work to be done to change the current system for the better, but we have to start somewhere and I am glad this government has made it a priority as the extraordinary costs of our current system is just going to get worse and worse.

There is no reason to cry. You have a chance to elect whom you wish. I did. You must have lost. Maybe vote next time, it could make a difference. I know everyone is smarter than I , been told it all my life. It's just a waste of time complaining, ya might as well staple teabags to your hat. lol Wanting to deny anyone health insurance, and have the nerve to try to shush up folks from Canada, is a toe tapper end play. I just can't believe in America there are such bad losers.


Steve

And that is what they should have focused on....fixing the system, not taking it over. If the insurance companies could be brought into the realm of reality, we would see lower rates all the way around. One thing....Doctors are charged so much for malpractice insurance they HAVE to charge higher rates....then the insurance companies compensate by charging us for it all, when they are the ones who initiated the issues to begin with. Them and the lawyers who sue everyone for everything. Get them controlled, fix what we have. I do NOT like the takeover that just happened.

Amy and Sophia

I do agree with one person's comment (cant remember who it was) that we are required to have auto insurance. Its illegal to NOT have it. I agree that everyone should be required to have some sort of health insurance as well, but only if there is some massive tightening down of premiums and what dr.s, etc. are allowed to charge the insurance companies for services. They charge the ins. companies outrageous prices, which drives up what the ins. companies charge the individuals. It also raises that amt. the individual has to pay for their part (the part the ins. doesnt pay) of the charges as well. Require everyone to have some sort of health ins. Ok, but fix the insurance system!!

Im sorry about your situation. I like your idea about the gov. I also love the US and the men and woman who fight for our freedom.

your mad at the world, we are all discussing things here and not swearing about anything. You live in Canada, we live in the US, things are different here. and that is balony about not helping others, not sure why you are so mad at all of us in the US, but you kept the thread going.

to pay for insurance, that is what I think. And I know what some of the larger companies are charged....my insurance alone through my hubbys company was more than 600 a month...for a 44 year old non smoking, non drinking, exercise daily, eat well, thin lady.....you get the picture!! If I had even one medical condition that was not normal, it would have been worse. What I wish would have happened was that the government would have fixed the rate issues, not made it so we all will wind up being taxed more and forced to pay for something we may not even want.

Amy and Sophia

Not upset that her kids were covered, as they had been for quite a while. She is a single mother, but her kids live with her parents, b/cause she chooses to act like she doesn't have kids, but that is another issue.

It bothers me that she manipulates the system, techinically she didn't "qualify" for the surgery. She told me the nutrionist manipulated the numbers (and counseling she was supposed to do before teh surgery) which she didn't complete. This is just one of the things she has done. It bothers me that before she got her degree, she had a job as a NA where I work for 17.00/hr, and that wasn't good enough....she would always find a reason not to work.

So while I am for aiding people that need help.....honestly need it...I am not for helping people..that have no desire to help themselves or be productive and take care of their responsibilites.

But that is me.

But I think that small businesses will be able to form and/or join groups and obtain insurance at the same group rates that larger companies and corporations pay.

I apologize to you that live in other countries for what my words sounded like, though I did NOT mean that you should have no opinion. It is that we that live here, we have things in our government, as you probably do, that some of us disagree with. One of those things is that mandatory insurance is going to force those of us in small businesses to either offer insurance we can't afford to pay for to our employees, or we will be fined repeatedly until we do, or we will go under. I would LOVE to have an option of offering reasonably priced insurance to those who wish to pay for it, but to be forced to pay for insurance for people who work for us is going to be the straw that broke the camels back for many small business owners.

You all are welcome to join the conversation, as all of us are, and maybe an outside view is a good one. I don't have the answers....I am only sorry I offended people I care very much about.

Amy and Sophia

=(

Everything has beauty, but not everyone sees it. ~Confucius
[IMG][/IMG]

We live in a very diverse and very large country. Not everyone shares your same political ideology - please remember it is your OPINION and not fact to say the majority of American people do not support healthcare as a human right.
Certainly you are entitled to your opinion, but I can say with utmost certainty it is not shared by the majority of Americans regardless of what lobbyists or fear mongering policital pundits have been shoveling down your throat. It's no mystery how easily it is to raise the ire of your political base - just mention the word "taxes" and suddenly you're convinced what you've rightfully worked hard to earn will be magically stolen from you and handed over to an imaginary group of individuals whom is living large on your dime. If I want you to oppose something, all I have to do is convince you it will cost you more and benefit you less. It doesn't even have to be true. Sad.
I have been a Registered Nurse for over twenty years and I consider it to be disgusting and immoral to profit from others illnesses or injury. The passing of this bill is long overdue.

--


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There are so many sides of this that I see that so many don't seem to. So allow me to explain where I come from.

I have serious health issues, and have been without insurance of any kind from May of 2000 until August of 2009. During that time, I had to rely on family help with any bills I had, or community care from hospitals, or "free" or reduced fair clinics. As of August of 2009 I'm on state healthcare which costs 60 dollars a year...which because I don't have a job So the blessed of the world can be aware there IS discrimination against the handicapped in this country it's something that I can't really afford. ALSO, because I'm handicapped and DON'T have children of my own, I do not get the 5 dollar meds that those with kids DO...so my scrips if I have to pay them out of pocket are 150 a month STILL!

It is good to know that EVENTUALLY pre-existing conditions will have to be covered, but that won't happen soon enough for any disabled person or anyone with any disease of any kind including diabetes, heart disease or cancer. It's horrible to know that the government is forcing people to get healthcare, and pay for it. IF the United States...a country I believe in would do what other countries including Canada have been willing to do, I wouldn't have a complaint. There should be a government healthcare system for EVERYONE...all people get the same treatment, and insurance companies should be done away with for good! We should NOT have a health insurance bill being blocked by people who take money from health insurance companies...THEY are the COMMUNISTS of this country! People talk about Socialism in America now, but the reality is...thanks to Insurance Companies and other 'special interest groups' we have lived in a communist society for far too long and continue to live in one.

What NEEDS to be done is this...there is a piece in the Bill of Rights, or somewhere else in the constitution that says that the government every 10 years needs to be SHUT DOWN, and a new government started, a government that helps the people as well as the country. We need to invoke this! We need to SHUT DOWN the government completely, we NEED to kick everyone the hell OUT of Washington, and for a government that actually IS by the people, FOR the people and OF the people! Not a government that caters to the whims of special interest groups...come on people we have Barack Obama as President...and our president is being told how to run things by a group of Khruschevs! So as soon as we get the Boris' and Mikhail's out of our goverment the better off we are!

If I could I would DIE for this country to protect and defend it from all enemies foreign and domestic...and I'd start by shooting the lobbyists!

Sorry, I'll get off my soap box now.

Mike

We are ALL GOING TO DIE now because our healthcare industry will be so substandard.
HIDE GRANDMA because the government is going to have DEATH PANELS and KILL our elderly!
Wait, the insurance companies already deny treatment that kills our elderly, but that was OK!
NO ONE is going to pay for ANYTHING anymore.
No wait, the taxpayers are going to pay for EVERYONE now.
Umm, well if no one has to pay anymore, then I guess the taxpayers will be paying for themselves too?
Anyways, SOMEONE is going to have to pay for those freeloaders who won't pay for themselves.
No wait, the taxpayers were already paying for those freeloaders who won't pay for themselves.
UGGG! It's just going to be HORRIBLE because now we are ALL SOCIALISTS!
No wait, true Socialism is contrary to human nature and can not exist, so we are all actually COMMUNISTS!
THE HORROR!

Cathy
when she first came home

nm

nm

I should not have made the remark about leaving the country. I apologize for that. But I don't think there is much you and I will agree on when it comes to health care.





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and the parents ARE paying for that insurance. My son has cerebral palsey and got a late start to school. Now as an adult he is older than most college kids. Why should he be cut off from affordable insurance?

Cathy
when she first came home

We don't have the best health care, we have the most expensive. Plus, more of our income is spent for health care than any other country in the world (except East Timor.)

Our life expectancy is 42nd, after even Chile. Our infant mortality is one of the highest among the wealthy nations, mostly because poor women can't get care when they are pregnant and they have sick children. A 2009 Harvard study showed that 44,000 people die in the USA every year because they can't afford health care.

Yes, we have some of the best doctors and best clinics and hospitals. That's where all the billionaires from across the world come. People with good insurance have great health care. But 15 percent of our population cannot afford any insurance and a lot of us have huge deductibles and limited coverage.

I'm glad the bill passed. It's not enough, but it'll help a lot of people.

PLUS, what the very rich (more than $200,000 a year) will pay in extra taxes, they'll save in health insurance and health care costs. Anyone making under that will come out ahead. Those making under $88,000 will come out WAY ahead.

peace and love....

Woof!

because we disagree with a gov takeover, hope it works out for you. Lived in the US all my life, dont appreciate others telling me to get out because they like our / my/ gov/ taking over. JMO

That is one of the major reasons we are SO opposed to this legislation, the small business owners are gonna get creamed. Unfortunately, we just started two businesses! But we plan on making enough to offer health care, if it is affordable for us.

And just to add this....my insurance through my hubby's old employer more than doubled in October...from 315 a month to 660 a month. Why? Because that company had one man who died of cancer, one who had a major stroke, and one who was a diabetic. Why is that my fault? The rates caused me to cancel the insurance. Hate to see how much it will cost me now!

Amy and Sophia

the only bad thing is that once the patient is stablized, the VA may transfer you to a hospital in Houston or another city that has a VA hospital. I know one guy who was transferred to San Antonio. That was a bit of a financial hardship for his wife because she had to pay her own way to fly there and to rent a hotel room. His transportation, tho, was free. But it would still be better if there was a VA hospital in New Orleans. A lot of local veterans were hoping the VA would take up the Oschner Clinic's offer of free land next door to its main location. It's in a much safe area, out in the suburbs. But the politicians stepped in and nixed that deal. Unfortunately, the VA has to do what the politicians say to do.





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and they spoke loudly about this bill, this is why "right now" I dont trust the government. This is my opinion/freedom of speech/we still have thank goodness. I dont want to get into talk show hosts for sure. That is not what we are talking about , it is the gov, taking over everything.

can use, when they have a medical crisis. Do they?

I am happy to hear that more medical services are available for our veterans.

I'm baffled by those who do. It makes me wonder why they keep living here.

Thanks for your kind remarks. Things have gotten a lot better at the VA. They have made a deal with Tulane Medical School and Medical Center to provide a lot of services to veterans until the new hospital is built. So far, so good.





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I love our military, dont feel that way at all, and feel they need more health care. whats up with that?

deleted my long post, dont agree with you on anything. If you trust our gov thats is fine.

the govt telling me what healthcare I need to buy. Oh and if I don't I'll be fined and jailed. At what point is too much gov't enough?

spirits. You have a very compassionate heart.

I find the amount the amount of hatred toward the government very upsetting. Our taxes fund Medicare, firefighters, schools, including federal funds given to private colleges, teachers, hospitals, and public transportation.

Gary, I really hope this new healthcare legislation will help you, personally. Do you think it will? I have been so upset for you, about you NOT being able to get your medical needs met since the VA hospital hasn't been rebuilt near you.

I have been keeping Clovis close to my heart and saying lots of prayers for her health.

you never hear today's conservatives admitting that.







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the military that has kept you safe from dictatorship your entire life, the national park system, the IRS (I worked for it for 5 years and I know for a fact that it is a very profitable organization).

If you hate your government as much as your posts demonstrate, perhaps you should consider moving to a place that has no liberals. Like North Korea.





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and in my opinion, it was the most honest workplace, by a huge margin, of all the places I have worked, and FAR more honest than the private sector employers I have worked for.

Joanne, I just don't understand why you despise your government so much. The vast majority of government employees are incredibly honest people. I never once saw the kind of dishonesty among government workers that I have routinely seen among private sector workers. The federal government built the nuclear weapons and the military that have kept you safe from dictatorship for your entire life, yet you despise it. That baffles me. The federal government put a man on the moon, it built the interstate highway system you drive on, it built the military that protects you, it built the beautiful national parks that have made huge amounts of money for states like Maine. Yet you loathe it. I loathe the greedy corporations and CEOs who destroy ordinary peoples' lives so they can put another buck in their pockets (and not all of them are that way. I am huge admirer of Warren Buffett, who does know how to run honest companies).

I suspect you listen a lot to people like Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh. If so, have you ever thought that maybe they have an agenda? They make tens of millions of dollars per year defending the giant corporations that rip off middle class citizens every chance they get. Ask yourself this . . . if STAR quarterbacks in the NFL only make about $9 million a year, how is that these radio stations can pay the Becks and Limbaughs as much as $40 million a year?? By selling ads, right? And who do you think is funneling massive amounts of money into those ads? Could it be the insurance companies, oil companies, and pharmaceutical companies that Beck and Limbaugh love so much?? Possibly?? Think about it.

As I said above, every modern country in the world except the U.S. has national health insurance, including Japan, which was bombed to rubble at the end of WWII yet rose from the ashes to become one of the most successful CAPITALIST countries in human history, and yet has had national health insurance since the 1940s. And it didn't turn them into socialists.

Joanne, please consider that you are letting a bunch of very greedy but very skillful people play on your fears to the point where you swallow their propaganda just like they want people to do.






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people are the most generous in the world. Just look at when a disaster strikes who is that sends money, doctors, rescuers it is the Americans. As far selfish goes it is the people in this country that want something for nothing that is selfish.

you dont like the bill?

so I wouldn't have a chance.





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for sure, dont like either party, but dont think "all" americans are selfish and feel they need to go back and look at the constitution and get it figured out. so bully related, bruno isnt doing well and would appreciate some good vibes for him

should be discussed on a political forum not a Bulldog forum.

No one is ever going to be happy and Democrats and Republicans are never going to agree on anything, even if they think its a great idea. It's like a school yard with a bunch of spoiled brats trying to get their own way. And to go so low as to name calling. What great examples these politicians are for their own children. If it comes from a Dem then it will be opposed by a Rep and visa versa.

Honestly pretty sad. Why don't they all just learn to compromise, create a plan and execute it for the better of the whole country not just for their own party.

Americans are very selfish!

NM

they will kick in the stuff everyone likes first as far as their plan goes. they need to pay for medicaid and medicare. We will start paying now, the other stuff doesnt kick in till 4 years as far as health insurance, thats when we will get socked even more. I like everything that is coming right now, but as far as the rest/ pretty scary. next bill to come is illigal reform, so more illigals to pay for in health insurance. How in the world will we be able to afford it? JMO