Do you think Judges put up Handlers more than owners? Check this out
Submitted by Judy on July 23, 2010 - 12:25pmThis was on Infodog and I thought you might find it interesting....
JUDGES ONLY PUT UP HANDLERS, SO
HANDLERS MUST BE THE ONLY ONES WINNING AT DOG SHOWS
Really? If you speak with very many exhibitors they’ll be only too happy to express that statement. This got us thinking. So many folks believe this to be so, but upon what is this statement based? Perception? Experience? Their breed? What are the facts?
We decided to take a look at wins at dog shows. Using published records for MB-F shows held in 2008 and 2009 we looked at:
- The number of Winners wins awarded
- The number of Bests of Breed awarded
- The number of Group Firsts awarded
- The number of Bests in Show awarded
- The number of these wins that were awarded to dogs with no agent listed and the number that were awarded to dogs that had an agent listed.
Here’s what we found.
82,724 Winners awards
11,771 (14%) were given to dogs with handlers listed and
70,953 (86%) were awarded to dogs with no agent listed.
50,587 Bests of Breed awards
17,033 (34%) were awarded to dogs with a handler listed and
33,554 (66%) were awarded to dogs with no agent listed.
3402 Group Firsts
1857 (55%) were awarded to dogs with a handler listed and
1545 (45%) were awarded to dogs with no agent listed.
488 Bests in Show awards
323 (66%) awarded to dogs with a handler listed and
165 (34%) awarded to dogs with no agent listed.
82,237 Winners awards
11,239 (14%) were given to dogs with a handler listed and
70,998 (86%) were awarded to dogs with no agent listed.
51,176 Bests of Breed awards
17,566 (34%) were awarded to dogs with a handler listed and
33,610 (66%) were awarded to dogs with no agent listed.
3445 Group Firsts
1810 (53%) were awarded to dogs with a handler listed and
1635 (47%) were awarded to dogs with no agent listed.
496 Bests in Show awards
310 (62%) were awarded to dogs with a handler listed and
186 (38%) were awarded to dogs with no agent listed.
The numbers are what they are. To find your individual breed, go to the accompanying table to see the numbers and percentages for Winners and Best of Breed. Please remember that not all breeds compete at each show. The totals account for every time a breed was entered at a show and competed. There are separate tables (by Variety Group) for 2008 and 2009.
Do you think Judges put up Handlers more than owners? Check this outSubmitted by Judy on July 23, 2010 - 12:25pm
handlers and winning
Submitted by Shane Twamley on July 23, 2010 - 4:36pm.
The problem is that it does not show the percent and comparison between % of handlers/ to non-handlers that are ENTERED.
And if 34% of the Best of Breed winners went in the group ring, then why is it that more than 50% of the time, those pro-handlers won the group (55%). That is a 21% jump from entries to wins.
Finally, if only 34% of the breed winners were handlers--- then why is it that they are twice as likely to go all the way and win Best in Show (66%)? So, if you get out of the breed and are not a pro, you are twice as likely to never win a Best in Show.
Lets put it in simple terms---
you have better chances of winning in the classes but as the competition goes deeper, your chances of winning get increasingly sparse.
The AKC was not built on the backs of pro-handlers, rather, on the backs of conscientious breeders.
That is a statistic that is not shown that would be VERY important; one should show the statistics of wins for breeder/handlers as they are the ones that have the concern of what comes out of the litter box and goes into homes, into rings, or go to work as military, hunting, or service dogs.
for instance---
Best of Breed went to an Agent 34% of the time? Is that to say then that an equal number of dogs were handled by agents and that 1/3 of all the handlers in the rings were pros? I have yet to see a single time where these percents played out for pro-handlers to make up that large of a percentage of these entries.
When it comes to competing against pro-handlers, they hone their craft very well and make a money of their refined skills. Additionally, many of them are more talented with their grooming talents. Specialing also involves some that travel out of their region to show to a particular judge who may like their interpretation of the standard. Secondly, for the people who are hobby breeders and maintain full-time jobs, it gets a little frustrating to see the influence of advertising from dog magazines as it takes a lot of money to compete on that level with those fly their dogs or have "adopted owners" who help pay for the ads and campaigning. That is part of the reason I find the DogPoop rankings to be of interest because there is a traditional top 10 poll, and then there is one which ranks them by the dogs who just show in their own region.
It would be interesting to see just how high a bulldog could go if it had the equal opportunity to pop in a carry-on and fly across country; that being said, a bulldog cannot even compete like some other bigger breeds that are able to fly cargo without the high risk a bulldog would encounter if someone flew it that way.
All in all, statistics can easily be skewed and there is usually a lot more to the story than the glossy numbers reveal.
Good Topic! my input...
Submitted by wardbull on July 23, 2010 - 5:31pm.
The thing that you have to remember when making this comparison is that the number of exhibitors that are Owners / Breeders far exceeds the number of Professionally handled dogs. But as you can see the Handlers do have a very high percentage of wins, especially in the Breed,Group and Best In Show numbers.
Why is this?
Well I would say there are several reasons.
While at All-Breed shows I have made it a point to watch Professional Handlers. They take there responsibilities very seriously, it is a business to them. There dogs are impeccably groomed and presented. They for the most part do not visit with the other exhibitors and they pay strict attention to the judge. Now that being said do they have the best dog in the ring...well sometimes yes...and sometimes no.
All-Breed Judges for the most part were professional handlers. The Handlers travel from show to show like the Judges do and relationships are built. The Game so to speak is played. If you are naive enough to think this does not happen, well you probably believe Breed judges dont play this game either.
LET ME SAY THIS - NOT ALL BREEDER OR ALL - BREED JUDGES PLAY THIS GAME.
But there is a considerable percentage that do. Through personal experience with Judges a large part believe that they are picking the Dog that matchs the Standard. But when you see Judges make there picks in the classes and for the most part do a good job and then you see a Handler on a Dog in Breed or the classes that has little breed type that is rewarded then you know that the GAME is on. I can handle ignorance, but I cant stand a Judge that knows the breed then puts up a FACE...All - Breed or Breeder Judge.
As for Bulldogs and Professional Handlers for the most part the Pro does a poor job handling a Bulldog, unless they are amoung the few Pros that specialize in the breed. I am very confident in my Bulldog handling abilities, so seeing a pro in the ring does not intimidate me at all. But when I see a Judge that plays THE GAME I scratch them off my list of those that I will exhibit to.
Remember you the Owner / Breeder / Handler has the control...we spend the money that all shows are run on. If you see a judge that is not doing his job scratch him or her off you list.
Thanks for doing the research!
W
This also does not
Submitted by tom on July 23, 2010 - 6:26pm.
take into account dogs that have handlers but the handler is not listed as an agent. There are alot of dogs in the ring shown by handlers but for one reason or another the handler is not listed as an agent when the dog was entered in the show.