PDA Patent ductus arteriosus
During fetal development, there are several bypasses that exist such as the ductus arteriosus and ductus venosus. These bypasses exist because the fetus relies on the mother. The ductus arteriosus is between the aorta and the pulmonary artery. This allows the blood to be pumped from the right ventricle directly to the aorta without visiting the lungs. The fetus does not have developed lungs and relies on the mother for oxygen. It is congenital and this bypass may stay open(patent), hence patent ductus arteriosus. If it remains patent(open), blood will flow directly from the aorta to the lungs and put more stress on the heart and lungs.

Similar is the ductus venousus that shunts ~80% of the blood from the fetal umbilical vein to the caudal vena cava. This bypasses the liver, because the mother's body eliminates the toxins. If this remains open(patent), you will have a liver shunt.

Also during fetal development, there is an opening(foramen) between the right and left atrium. This too exists because the lungs of the fetus are not functional. If this foramen ovale remains patent, blood will be shunted and there will be a mix of unoxygenated and oxygenated blood causing an atrial septal defect.

A murmur is simply a sound nothing more than a sound. According to what kind of sound is being made can point to where a defect exists in the heart. Listening to the sounds of the heart and recognizing the patern and sounds can lead one to determine where an issue exists.

Lub is the first heart sound- closing of AV valves
Dub is the second heart sound- closing of semilunar valves
Whistle is a stenotic valve (tight valve)
Swish is an insufficient valve (regurgitation)

Lub-dub-whistle, Lub-dub-whislte, Lub dub-whistle would be a stenotic AV valve
example: Lub is heard first by itself, so that is the closure of the AV valves. Dub is heard second and that is the closing of the semilunar valves. Now you hear a whistle. The whistle is heard because the force of the blood is being pushed through a small opening into the ventricles. Notice the whistle exists before the next Lub. Now we know that there is a stenotic AV valve.

There are more paterns and sounds that can exist. A specific defect can be found according to the arrangements of the Murmur (sound)

Lorraine
If only I was as good a person as my dogs seem to think I am!
Find us on:
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she breed the same bitch and same stud 3 times.

During the 2nd section the vet said oh thats a bunch of crap and folic acid does nothing. So she didnt use folic acid with the 3rd litter. She had her first cleft puppy.......

I give folic, it doesnt hurt!

I feed a good quality food, folic acid, raw liver and increased protein for the whole pregnance

Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly

www.LangagerBulldogs.com

PHOTOS ARE PROPERTY OF LANGAGER BULLDOGS, YOU MUST HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION FOR ANY USE OF THESE PHOTOS FROM LANGAGERBULLDOG.

I have used prenatal vitamins esp w/ folic acid b/c I understood it to help avoid some congenital defects such as cleft palate ... I guess I also figured if pregnant 'two leggers' took a specific multivitamin to help w/ needs of growing fetuses why wouldn't a 4 legger also benefit by it? But I have not experiemented with what happens when I don't vs when I do use prenatals.
Basically the question was what is the difference when you give those supplements as opposed to when you don't give them...and I have no scientific evidence for either side. I have never tried one litter on them and one not on them in other words...and to be more scientific it should be w/ same breeding with one breeding of same dog, same dam w/ prenatals vs breeding of same dog/same bitch w/o prenatals.
When I originally started breeding dogs, I just made sure the mom had a good dog vitamin such as Pet Tabs or something. I did it b/c sometimes pregnant bitches get so fussy and go on some weird food strikes that I thought they would at least get enough vitamins to sustain the prenancy and themselves w/o getting rickets or something.
Then some folks talked about folic acid for lowering risk of congenital birth defects (congenital not being the same as genetic....congenital is caused by something that did not happen w/ the pup/baby as normal part of fetal development....like the connected arteries to the heart remaining connected after birth instead of separating into two distinct 'pathways' one going to heart and one going away from heart vein and artery....and if the separation is incomplete it causes a PDA: basically creates a current that is too fast and shoots too much blood into the heart and causes it to enlarge...you can hear it on a stethoscope like a whooshing sound instead of a normal heart thumping sound....not a murmur either...something that can be operated on and the opening closed btwn the two so blood is not swishing around away from and back to the heart to hard and quickly)...I know...bad explanation of PDA and a long one (which I forget what it stands for peripheral duct arterial something maybe?) Anyway I know that is congenital. Had it w/ 2 Sheltie pups from entirely different litters...of course it happened in a bitch puppy that was absolutely incredible...but could never be bred...incredibly gorgeous pet after the surgery.
Seemed like a good topic for discussion that was asked of me....anyone have any experience one way or the other way or both ways?????
?????

Lorraine
If only I was as good a person as my dogs seem to think I am!
Find us on:
www.karismakennels.com

On them. Topic acid is water soluable I give 2 or 3 pill per day. Just remember spinal.cord defects are genetic so if they carry the gene it will not take it away so if you double up several times it may pop up at anytime


Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly

www.LangagerBulldogs.com

PHOTOS ARE PROPERTY OF LANGAGER BULLDOGS, YOU MUST HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION FOR ANY USE OF THESE PHOTOS FROM LANGAGERBULLDOG.

.

Wild West Bulldogs

http://www.labbies.com/reproduction1.htm#AI

Wild West Bulldogs

I have used 800mcgs and also 400mcgs by halving the people prenatals figuring our dogs are at least half a person size...but I don't know if it is water soluble, ie, any excess just gets excreted or if it is fat soluble and excess gets stored or stuck in the fatty tissue....It is a B vitamin I believe and should there fore by water soluble...I know I never noticed any difference in the litter of pups. Who is Miss Olivia's 'Beau to be'???


Lorraine
If only I was as good a person as my dogs seem to think I am!
Find us on:
www.karismakennels.com