the same can be said for breeder handlers....which is also a "judging" issue.

That's a judging issue.

Andy

That's our plan

See you tomorrow! I hear my girl went Reserve today.

Lots of handlers in Florida. More satisfaction if you can finish them yourself unless physically unable to. Handlers can finish dogs that are less worthy of the championship title. Case closed.

Sorry if I came off as putting people down for using handlers. That really wasn't the case at all...whatever floats their boat. :<) Just thought I'd try to get a good discussion started.

After exhibiting St. Bernards for thirty years. And with all my knee problems, I cannot kneel anymore and do a bully justice in the ring. On the lighter side, the judge would be on the next breed and I would still be trying to get up lol. What a sight. I miss the excitment and tension of being in the ring with my own dog or a dog of my breeding but those days are over.

Mike and the bullies

We had a bitch that took 5 years to finish...We bred her when we felt the time was right...She had 2 litters of pups before she finished her Championship at age 5 in 100 degree heat with a specialty major..IF you want to breed your bitch... breed her then bring her back out..Keep her weight down so shes in tip top shape..A good bitch will hold together through a pregnancy..Besides.....What are we supposed to be showing??..Our breeding stock...and what good is a bitch if she cant get pregnant..Some experts say the longer you wait the chances of you getting that bitch pregnant decreases with each season..JMHO..

Kelly
Whitehills Bulldogs
http://www.geocities.com/kellywhitehills

I live on the East Coast of Canada (above Maine) and for me to even get to a show that will hold a major is 10 plus hours in one direction (MA). There are shows there almost every other weekend but I'm a teacher and can't take weekdays to travel to these shows without taking days without pay. When you're single, with your own house, there isn't a lot of money to play around with so it has to be spent with the idea of getting the most bang for your buck. For me that will mean a handler at some point. I do as much as I can, I love the travelling, I love the showing but if I ever want to finish a dog in the US at some point there WILL be a handler. I don't get nervous in the ring anymore... my first time showing was at the Capitol Bulldog Specialty, that knocked the nerves out of me.

Shelley - Sophie N Angels Mocha & Stella

we wanted someone who was familiar with bulldogs. Owner/breeders are I think more in tune to the needs and requirements of our breed. Not saying the professional handlers aren't, just gives peace of mind I think ))
L

Laura
Thunderstruck Bulldogs
http://sitekreator.com/thunderstruckbulldog/index.html

To those who understand no explanation is needed. To those who don't no explanation is possible.

with the exception of a very few most of these Bulldog "handlers" are themselves breeder, owner-handlers of their own Bulldogs. They just happen to be very good at what they do.

Andy

I have to work every other weekend and that automatically excludes a lot of shows unless I take vacation.

It was sooooo funny!

I put some on the general forum & FB from our show and I may have video from your girl's win - will check tonight

showing our FIRST show at the "Winter circuit" was a bit like baptism by fire!! LOL

- but we had a great time, all the bulldoggers were so nice and helpful, we learned tons and our ring experience improved each day, so it was a great first show - I think I am totally hooked!!

Jen, just wanted to say I love this picture of you and Twister! (the second one!)it is fabulous... love the look of pride on your face :0)

~Kellie and Chloe~

nm

Andy

you learn a lot (good & bad)

and that's why Twister & I only did 2 days....wish I could be back up there today - but not if I want to keep my job and continue showing my dogs! LOL

The daddy had NO control over that silly boy, and it took mom and then the handler to get him to behave in the ring?! I thought that was one of the most memorable things I have seen. Poor owner though, he had to have been embarrassed! Especially under that particular judge and have her comment on it to him!

Amy and Sophia

I've had 1 champion finished by a handler-one of the more popular handlers in the south-Frank Jewett. My current boy Butkus got his first 10 pts put on him by me-yes satisfaction but can't get those majors on him-so he's with Tammy Turner to hopefully wrap it up. If you haven't tried a handler, don't knock what you don't know. I am a very nervous person-I can do the small shows all day long and not stress-I get to the shows where it's a major and I break out in a sweat(pouring sweat), I get sick to my stomach and my hands shake-so is the personal havoc and worry worth it-no it's not. And that phone call from the handler telling me that my dog won is just as exciting as if I had won it myself-because it doesn't have to do with me-it has to do with the dog. If I had an unlimited cash flow all my dogs would go with handlers just because it's better on my nerves, less expensive in the long run, and not so much time out of work. Up until 5-6 yrs ago this was mostly an owner/breeder handled breed-not as much anymore-the handlers are coming-the bigger shows are over run with them. Just my .02 and as usual I am not agreeing with the majority LOL.
L

Laura
Thunderstruck Bulldogs
http://sitekreator.com/thunderstruckbulldog/index.html

To those who understand no explanation is needed. To those who don't no explanation is possible.

what you learn and see is priceless, but I agree its so expensive, and the time traveling. I would think finding the right handler who your dog enjoys and works well for isn't always easy either? people can make or break a dogs performance, and I think if your dog is not used to the lifestyle it could be very hard and draining on them..?

and some have all ready been given.

I personally love to show my own dog...infact I get way more nervous watching.

But I have Ester out right now with a friend because I don't want to take the time off of work for dog shows. My husband and I do still enjoy vacationing together and he is not into the dog shows (at all). Most specialty shows seem to be during the week with the All-breed shows on the weekend and normally the specialty shows are the ones we need to go to for majors...so this week a friend is showing Ester. I could show on the weekend but I don't think it is fair for the dog to start switching handlers. If I wasn't doing this we would show at alot less shows.

The Winter Circuit(what we call down here in Florida)begins in Jacksonville with a total of 14 shows within a three week period. I personally can't take that much time off of work and don't know many people who can.

Andy

Thanks for the open minded response.

If you want to take 5 years to finish a dog then what do you do if you have a bitch you would like to breed? Especially when you have lines that mature slowly and your bitch looks her best right when she should be bred. What then?

I'm not sure you were replying to me but maybe you should be a little more open minded and undestanding of others life situations. I don't live for dog shows personally like many do. For me the dog shows and bulldoggers are not my social family. But I certainly understand why it is for many bulldoggers and would never be so close minded to degrade them because of it. It is a life choice that I fully understand. I showed horses for 30+ years and I understand the family very well and living life for the love of a hobby.

I don't and wouldn't send a dog on the circuit with a professional handler just to finish it and I don't think you see many handlers showing Bulldogs.

There are plenty of owner/breeder/handlers showing, placing and finishing undeserving dogs IMHO. The Bulldogger adds/photos isn't always a great example of quality either way. I've seen some wonderful pictures of dogs that I loved only to be very disappointed when seeing them in person and visa versa. I too scratch my head at what finishes but you have to keep in mind what is being shown in all parts of the country. Some areas are way tougher then other areas as well as the numbers it takes for majors and points.

MY POINT is there are times when you may need to have someone else show your dog. Simple as that!

In my situation Ester will be 3 in April. I would like to breed her then and I don't have the time available to show her myself in shows that are coming up that are possible majors. I have the opportunity to have her shown by very trusted friends who I know are taking care of her like one of there own. These are Bulldoggers not handlers. I would love to have 8 weeks of vacation a year...but unfortunately I don't and if I want to have the best opportunity to get my dog finished then this is what I have to do.

Yes I was very happy and excited putting the 4 point major on her over specials and the Best in Sweeps win, as well as the 6 Reserves and her other wins and all those ribbons of various colors. She has done very well in the ring with me showing her.

So while you may not get it....there are many reasons why it makes sense for others.

I am new to showing and I get very nervous in the ring. I can handle small shows but shows like Nationals or other big Specialty shows terrify me. I figure it's better for my dog to go into the ring with someone who is more confident and self assured than to go into the ring with me and sense my nerves. So, I will sometimes send him into the ring with one if his breeders or a pro handler. I know I need to just get over my nerves and I believe I will in time.

One thing I won't do is send my dog out on the road with a handler. Wherever he goes, I go. So if I hire a pro, I will meet them at the show with my dog. It's not that I don't trust the handler, it's just that I can't bear to be separated from my boy.

As a Canadian who wants an American championship on a dog, it's cheaper for me to send my dog with a handler. It costs me on average one thousand dollars a weekend that I take my dog to a show, whereas if I send my dog with a handler it would be about $500. So I could get 2 weekends for the price of one, not to mention the time I'd have to take off of work to travel throughout the week to get to the location. I absolutely love taking my dog in the ring, but at some point I'll have to send her with a handler.

Shelley - Sophie N Angels Mocha & Stella

I took my 6-month-old baby girl into the ring for the first time a couple of weeks ago. It was the Palm Springs, CA cluster with 6 shows over four days and drew a large number of puppies and dogs. I thought she'd be a little hellion, but she surprised me and behaved so well in the ring. She took a ribbon 5 out of the 6 shows over the course of the weekend. I didn't expect anything, so I was thrilled and it didn't matter what color the ribbon was! We both had a great time, and she really bonded with me. That's what it's all about for me - having fun with my dogs and making sure they're having fun, too.

Most of the "agents" listed are themselves owners, breeders, handlers of their own Bulldogs and not all breed handlers per say. Is the issue of these so called "handler champions" simply a handler issue or an issue with a judge looking at the wrong end of the lead?

Andy

I for one as a "bulldog buyer" not a "breeder" am totally thrilled that I can show my own dog and not feel forced to use a handler - with some breeds out there you don't stand a chance without one

I was totally thrilled with the progress Twister & I had made in a day - I felt more confident and calm and he showed really well for a 6 month old!! It might as well have been a purple one - because I was just as excited!! LOL

I'm not sure if I taped her class or not....will have to check, I was taping from bulldog club friends and it may have been the class your girl was in - will let ya know!

I tend to fall on your side of the fence with regards to the satisfaction one gains from showing their own dogs. I've never been a good "spectator"; I'm much more of a "do-er" and enjoy immensely my own accomplishments based on my own efforts.

But I do understand that being in the ring isn't for everyone. I've got a bulldogger friend who loves her dogs dearly, wants them to be shown, is very proud of her dogs doing well in the ring, but just doesn't feel comfortable herself being in the ring. And certainly others have made the case for pro handlers for monetary, job, and travel reasons.

We are very fortunate that this breed is comprised mostly of owner-handled, breeder-exhibited folks. Most of the other breeds are heavily dominated by professional handlers, which can make it tougher and less palatable to exhibit your own dogs.

If you have the clip I would love to see it.

Andy

Jen in Fl-- you look so proud of Twister's red ribbon that YOU and YOUR dog earned in the ring. Congrats!

***
I just can't see what is so great about breeding, rearing and then sending your product off to "finishing school" with a handler to get that title. We all know a handler could finish a beagle in a bulldog class if shown long enough. How do you know your dog was really worthy of that champhion title? MANY aren't.

Heck I'm still in the middle of my '09 March issue of the Bulldogger-newest three still unopened.. because I'm tired of shaking my head in wonderment, wondering how the heck so many unworthy dogs are managing to finish.

I get very nervous in the ring too...anxiety attacks. Often you will see me talking or fidgetting in the ring..just trying to relax my nerves. I find it much better for me to show a dog that doesn't do well at standing still or moving without my constant attention.
It gets my mind off myself.

I don't do many shows...haven't shown since nationals. Usually show about five specialty weekends and two or three days of all breed shows a year and nationals. Hubby loves the dogs but thinks showing is stupid so I don't overdo it.

I still fail to see what self satisfaction a person gets when they receive a phone call from the handler saying their dog won at a show. Big whoopty do. It can't be no where near the fun as it would have been by earning it yourself even if it takes five years!

And no..not sour grapes here. Am showing nothing worthy of the champion title right now. I'm just out to have a good time with wonderful bulldoggers and their dogs and trying the best that I can in the ring. It's my hobby.