Don't let them try to work things out. This is a far different situation than dogs just behaving aggressively when in cages. Maybe try to move them into kennels far away from each other in order to manage the situation. If you want to train them, it's possible to get them to at least tolerate each other better through counter-conditioning (i.e. getting an animal to love something it hates by using an unconditioned stimulus). If you're going to do this, find a trainer that really understands how to train through classical conditioning. It takes perfect timing, an understanding of the dog's threshold, and a good eye for the stimulus causing the behavior.

Here's an example of counter-conditioning: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI13v9JgJu0

If you decide to work on the training, it will be very tedious and will take a ton of patience. And, of course, don't try this if you're not a professional. It takes an understanding of conditioned and unconditioned stimuli and conditioned and unconditioned responses. As the video states, it is possible to end up rewarding the unwanted behavior, which would then be operant conditioning (stimulus contingent on behavior) rather than classical (stimulus not contingent on behavior). That's why it's so pertinent that the timing must be flawless and the trainer must be well-educated in these methods and dog behavior.


Lindsey Vincent (APDT#76072)
The Collected Canine Dog Behavior Consultation Service
Van Buren, AR
www.thecollectedcanine.com
info@thecollectedcanine.com

but taking each of them separately to obedience work and working on being 'Top Bitch' or Alpha for yourself should make it that if you are in the room w/ the 2 (after multiple trials and working them w/in sight of each other for a while) they will be 'OK" together if you are watching them. Had it, done it...have even seen it go away completely after a while...but I am a true Alpha in my home (includes hubby a lot of the time too I suppose...though less so there lol)
It requires exacting extreme consistency and setting very specific boundaries....usually it is easier to separate the warring 'couple'... but I would also not crate them next to each other but even in separate rooms to lower their daily antagonism towards each other....you should certainly be able to get to the point of walking them together in the future.... if you are able to maintain consistency and alpha role in the pack.
Good luck....it isn't easy...especially if it has gone on for more than a few months. I will find my bitches trying to push the boundaries when one of them is in heat anyway.


Lorraine
If only I was as good a person as my dogs seem to think I am!
Find us on:
www.karismakennels.com

that eventually when you are doing something long enough you see it all. Having had St. Bernards for thirty years and never having seen this behavior in my dogs I am probably close to being do. Thanks for the advice.

Mike and the bullies

Aww! Your girl is a cutie!!!
That litter was out of Ch R R Hummer.

I just had to say this off subject. Your picture looks like my little girl. She is out of Rock just wondering if yours was. To me they look so much alike.

It sounds like you have two dominate bitches. They both want to be leader. Its like a pack of wolves. In the pack there is always a dominate female or a dominate male.

I have 2 bitches that hate each other. If I remove thr barrier I have blood hair and guts everywhere. I have tried to socialize them together but thay still take one look and off to the races they go. Around every other dog I have they are ok as long as they aren't out together. I thought about just putting them in the pen and letting them settle it but they both are breeding champions and I don't want to create more problems. Short of placing one in another home, I would love to get an idea or two on how to solve this issue.

There are many factors that contribute to aggression. The behavior you're talking about is called barrier frustration. It's not just a Bulldog thing, it's a dog thing. Many times, if you remove the barrier and let the dogs meet, they are fine. Of course, if a dog has been socially deprived from have the chance to greet strange dogs on a regular basis, then I would take precautions. Leashes can also cause this behavior, since they are also a type of barrier.

Here's how it starts--the dog wants to greet another dog (sniff muzzles, then butts, then face-to-face), but the fence does not allow the dog to do this. After enough repetitions of this, then the dog becomes frustrated at its confinement and lashes out at anything around it. That's why it's highly important to let dogs be on a loose leash when greeting. Many times over, a tight leash will just add to the frustration since the dog is just going to feel restrained. Another way this can happen is if an owner is using leash jerks to correct the dog each time it wants to greet another dog, so then classical conditioning kicks in and the dog learns to associate other dogs with a leash jerk--which in turn can cause aggression.

The simplest solution is to simply remove the barriers; however, this isn't always a practical solution. If you're having issues, I would try to find a trainer with an education in classical and operant conditioning. It's possible to counter-condition barrier frustration by getting the cage-aggressive dog to enjoy seeing other dogs pass by on a regular basis. This takes a lot of work, and it takes a trainer that really understands conditioning methods, but in the end the dogs will be much more relaxed because of it.

Lindsey Vincent (APDT#76072)
The Collected Canine Dog Behavior Consultation Service
Van Buren, AR
www.thecollectedcanine.com
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