prolapsed urethra questions
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prolapsed urethra questions
Submitted by shellneisler on April 20, 2010 - 8:43pmI sold a puppy to a couple a that was looking for a stud to replace thier male that had just been nuetered due to a prolapsed urethra. The puppy looked very similar to the male they were replacing and I was just thrilled for them to find a quality replacement.
The puppy is 4 months old now and I got a phone call from them today letting me know that they thought they had the same thing happening with this new puppy. I knew very little about this condition so I contacted the breeder that owns the male I bred with. She told me that this is not a condition that has shown up at all with any of the breedings with her male. When I told her that this same couple had been through this before she said that alone sounded suspicious. She recommended trying small things and general treatment for the problem before they considered surgery. I agreed with that since who wants thier puppy to have surgery?? She told me that alot of times the prolapsed urethra is more of an injury due to humping, lunging or hunching in play pose. She also mentioned that it might be environmental since they had the same problem with an unrelated dog already. Possibilities included stones in the urine due to high protein foods or maybe even just a urinary tract infection from not having enough water or clean water.
I read as much information as I could find on this condition and still am not sure what course to take.
I want to make sure that I at least offer some information for them to try and consider.
From what I understand surgery is a last resort for this condition. I also have read that neutering does not always correct the problem and have found case studies involving dogs that were already neutered that developed this condition later anyway. If the prolapsed urethra is present only during erection then castration is the best way to handle the situation, but this is a 4 month old puppy. The owner told me that there is some irritation on the penis but no bleeding or anything serious yet.
The breeder that owns the male I bred with has suggested that this couple take the puppy to another vet or possibly a specialist if this becomes a chronic condition as he matures but that taking serious measures such as surgery to amputate the tip or neutering is going too far at this point. She told me that she does not believe that this is a life threatening condition and that I should offer suggestions for treatment but that the 1 year health guarantee does not cover treatable condition.
I know for sure that this couple wants to keep the puppy. My health contract with them states that the 1 year warrantee on the the dog is for "life threatening congenital defects". They bought the dog for the purpose of breeding but I did not guarantee the dog would be a great breeder or that they could even breed him at all.
She called to tell me that the puppy showed signs of a bladder infection and had some redness or irritation around his penis so she took him to the vet. The vet told her that it looked like prolapsed urethra and recommended amputating the penis tip and nuetering. The vet explained to her that neutering was the best way to make sure it doesnt happen again since it is due to erections. This puppy is only 4 months old and is not mature. So when she told me the vet recommended nuetering I told her I was going to have to research this more because it seemed strange to me that neutering might stop the problem if the puppy wasnt old enough to get an erection yet.
I went through a similar deal with a puppy I bought from a reliable breeder that had similar language in the 1 year health guarantee. My puppy kept getting sick and finally I found out it was because she had stenotic nares. I contacted the breeder and mentioned that stenotic nares is possibly a congenital defect, but that my vet also thought it was more of a breed predisposition and not necessarily hereditary. My breeder told me that stenotic nares was not a life threatening congenital condition and therefore it was my responsibility to pay for the surgery. She also told me that not all congenital disorders or diseases are life threatening such as skin fold dermatitis. I went along with her and paid for the surgery for the stenotic nares and the puppy has been healthy ever since. So I feel now like I got all upset about nothing and it was just a part of having bulldogs. Now I am in the opposite seat...
Do you consider prolapsed urethra to be a life threatening congenital disorder?? Is 4 months of age too soon to tell?
Is it ok to breed a dog with this condition as long as its not flared up??
Do you think its a self inflicted injury at this age or possibly a consequence of a urinary tract infection??
Would you amputate the tip and neuter at this age if it was treatable with antibiotics or ointments?
Sorry for the super long post!!!
Posted on Nov 15, 2006, 2:20 PM
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prolapsed urethra questionsSubmitted by shellneisler on April 20, 2010 - 8:43pm
YGM coming!
Submitted by mnmbulls (not verified) on November 16, 2006 - 1:35pm.
I'm sending you the article that details the new surgical procedure.
Urethral prolapse
Submitted by mnmbulls (not verified) on November 16, 2006 - 1:34pm.
Sounds like you've probably already read through my previous posts on this condition. The only new information I have to offer from personal experience is that my boy, Grady, recently had the new corrective procedure done and all is going great so far. He's 6 1/2 years old now, and I finally opted to try the new procedure because his recurrences have been much more frequent lately. I do believe that in most cases, a urethral prolapse improves with maturity. Unfortunately, this wasn't the case for Grady. I'm hoping the new procedure fixes everything for good.
Now, for your questions...
Do you consider prolapsed urethra to be a life threatening congenital disorder?? Is 4 months of age too soon to tell?
No, it is not a life-threatening congenital disorder. I wouldn't even consider it a congenital disorder because it is not present at birth. It may or may not be hereditary... that is unknown. It's just another one of those things that Bulldogs are predisposed to due to their genetic makeup.
Is it ok to breed a dog with this condition as long as its not flared up??
In my opinion, yes. Since it is not known to be hereditary at this point, I can't see throwing out a possible stud simply for this reason alone. I did breed Grady twice. He didn't bleed at all the first time and it resulted in a litter of two. He did bleed very, very slightly the second time, and the bitch did not take... however, we're just about positive it was the timing that caused her to miss. In his litter of two, there was one male. He never showed any signs or symptoms of a urethral prolapse issue.
Do you think its a self inflicted injury at this age or possibly a consequence of a urinary tract infection??
I can't answer this one. I'd have to refer to a vet. I have no experience with urinary tract infections.
Would you amputate the tip and neuter at this age if it was treatable with antibiotics or ointments?
Absolutely not. I will NEVER amputate the tip of the penis again for any urethral prolapse, regardless of the age of the dog. There is a new surgical procedure that doesn't require amputation. It's much less messy, heals faster, and has an outstanding success rate so far. This is the procedure I just had done for Grady.
At four months old, I wouldn't consider any surgery yet. I would treat it with the same methods that Jen mentioned above.
Hope this helps a little. My vet has become very experienced with urethral prolapses over the years and he is also very experienced with the new procedure. If you would like to talk with him or have your vet (or their vet) talk with him, here's his contact info:
Gary P. Larson, DVM
South Hill Veterinary Hospital
Puyallup, Washington
253-848-1503
Good luck!
great post..at least for me
Submitted by rhianniam on November 15, 2006 - 9:48pm.
You stated:I am always careful when placing a puppy to remind people if they want perfection then they ought to NOT get a bulldog. We never guarrantee a baby puppy will be a BISS winner (wish we could!) and sometimes when you are new to the breed, or any breed, you tend to obsess over every imperfection. We really try to hammer home the importance of going to a vet who really knows and likes bulldogs! It makes life much better for the dog, the owner and the breeder as well.
Wish more people would read this..and that someone would have told me this 11 months ago. I seriously thought I was going t get a puppy and she was going to be finished FAST! And I am getting better about imperfections. It has taken me a while to look at the whole picture. But I agree 100% a newbie focus's on all the imperfections, especially when you want to be on top of the show world..Its a rush like no other.
Do not neuter
Submitted by CatiAult on November 15, 2006 - 9:22pm.
That doesn't help.
I took my male down to Purdue when my local vet said he didn't have a clue what to do for him. (he was bleeding badly). Purdue said he had to be neutered. Said it was a serious operation (could bleed to death)..he'd have to stay there 4 days to be monitored. Would cost $1800 minimum. Well I took him back home...didn't want him neutered. Spent the night worrying. Bright and early the next morning I called my bulldog vet who said the same as Purdue ( must have gone to school there). So I then called Dr Shaw's office (4 hours from me). They said bring him right in and they would fix him right up. He left a trail of blood from the van to the front desk. They took him immediately in back and 45 minutes and $220 later we were walking out the door. He was fine. Vet did the pursestring method on him. That was almost 2.5 yrs ago.
He had to have it repeated once...on Dec 1st of last year. No problems since.
Neo-Synephrine or plain table sugar will stop the bleeding..at least temporarily.
I emailed him two sites, including the one with Melanie's post.
Submitted by Anonymous on November 15, 2006 - 8:45pm.
Urethral prolapse
Submitted by JenniferJoseph on November 15, 2006 - 6:41pm.
many young male bullies develop some mild degree of urethral prolapse. It often goes undetected as most cases do not cause much if any bleeding. My first male had it 16 years ago, he had no bleeding but I went with my vets advice on surgery and neutering. Not something I would have done now.
About 7-8 years ago I was visiting a breeder friend out of state and her 18 month old started bleeding, a lot. It was Saturday night and no-one felt comfortable with the vet on call so I rang my husband who is a physician and he said to go get some Neo-Senephrine nose drops and apply it to the prolapse. It worked a treat because it shrinks bllod vessels in mucus membranes like the urethra. She then applied panalog inside the end of the penis (this has been written about on this site before) and things calmed right down.
Long story shot, he had one or two relapses but once he cleared puberty things settled down and he lived a long life without surgery and no issues.
Vets who see alot of bulldogs generally don't get excited about the condition.
I have seen male puppies whose owners didn't notice the prolapse until some-one pointed it out. The condition often cleares up with maturity. Sugery should be a last resort for dogs with severe recurrent bleeding or bleeding disorders. Neutering may or may not help.
I am always careful when placing a puppy to remind people if they want perfection then they ought to NOT get a bulldog. We never guarrantee a baby puppy will be a BISS winner (wish we could!) and sometimes when you are new to the breed, or any breed, you tend to obsess over every imperfection. We really try to hammer home the importance of going to a vet who really knows and likes bulldogs! It makes life much better for the dog, the owner and the breeder as well.
search the forum for a post from Melanie
Submitted by ickytazz on November 15, 2006 - 6:02pm.
you can also email her at mnmbulldogs@comcast.net she has great info on this as well as a new procedure.
Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve', Holly & Blush
http://www.rubarbsoap.com/
Bulldog Club of Greater Seattle
Glad you came here for information...you will receive lots of re
Submitted by Anonymous on November 15, 2006 - 5:22pm.
First of all, we have several people (regulars like Melanie) here who have dealt with this condition so you will be getting good first-hand info. Second, there should be little rush to surgery in any case, especially with this condition as it is not yet clear what exactly is happening with this young dog...it could very well be related to some of the things you mentioned including bladder infection, humping behavior, simple erection due to puppy excitement that is being misinterpreted (the penis is very vascular and can look "raw" when it is often healthy and normal) and in response to improper diet resulting in urinary crystals or other causes for infection beyond average bacterial bladder infection which responds well to sulfa-based medications. SO, please caution these puppy owners to WAIT, and even copy the replies you receive and forward them to the people so they can have some assurances that this is NOT AN EMERGENCY situation. Too often younger vets look for the most costly solution rather than taking the least-disruptive one, especially vets not familiar with the breed, or those at the cheaper franchise clinics (like those at Petco or Petsmart,etc.) who work on salary plus commission on sales.
Lets have the owners treat the pup as for a typical bladder infection and have a urinalysis done to determine whether there are abundant crystals in the urine, and of what type! If their previous vet is unwilling to proceed in this manner, then see another vet! Then adjustments in the diet can be made to counter-balance those things which aggrivate/stimulate those crystals, and there is a website which can provide that assistance (Sue N knows of this).
Next, talk with them about puppy behavior and training regarding humping, which may or may not be happening, and how to work to break this from becoming habit (including use of squirt bottle, loud hand-clapping, etc. for distraction/deterent)along with verbal correction and change of focus=provide different toy, etc.
Lastly, I want to add that I am in agreement with your stud-breeder friend, this is NOT a life-threatening condition and I doubt if it is congenital unless there is visible evidence of some malformation of the dog's penis/shaft/urethra/bladder, which was not mentioned nor suspected at this point. While you are morally obligated to offer assistance, counsel and referral to better methods, vets and training, you are not responsible for the medical treatment nor replacement of this pup re breeding, and until a truer cause for the urethral irritation/prolapse is determined, the question of whether to breed this dog or not is unclear, IMO. Best wishes to the little guy.