Hi Carol
It's been awhile sine I have posted on bulldogs world, but when I read your post I just had to give my "ten cents worth" Our Maddie, now almost 8 years old has had about 5 surgeries for her entropion. We adopted her from a rescue when she was two. We knew she had health issues, but until you take on the care of a bulldog you are never really prepared for the $$cost$$ and sacrifices you have to make. Due to her being bred too close, she has just about every genetic health condition a bullie can have. I feel for you in your struggle to care for your boy. With Maddie, our vet was being very conservative with her eye surgery, He was worried if he was too aggressive with surgery it would cause Ectropion which is the opposite of Entropion causing eye lids to roll outward. We made the decision when the Entropion kept re-occurring to keep her on drops and ointment for the rest of her life. Surgeries themselves are dangerous for bulldogs, especially Maddie who has a trachea the size of a 15 pound dog! (she weighs 45lbs.)Talk to your vet about steroid drops and Optimmune ointment or Cyclosporine drops. The steroids help with the swelling and corneal scarring while the Cyclosporine helps with dry eye. Some over the counter ointments and drops can help, but you have to keep re-applying them in all day long. Hope this helps a little. Every bullie is so different, and this is the course we have decided to take. Oh, and try another vet!

Connie

Hi Carol
It's been awhile sine I have posted on bulldogs world, but when I read your post I just had to give my "ten cents worth" Our Maddie, now almost 8 years old has had about 5 surgeries for her entropion. We adopted her from a rescue when she was two. We knew she had health issues, but until you take on the care of a bulldog you are never really prepared for the $$cost$$ and sacrifices you have to make. Due to her being bred too close, she has just about every genetic health condition a bullie can have. I feel for you in your struggle to care for your boy. With Maddie, our vet was being very conservative with her eye surgery, He was worried if he was too aggressive with surgery it would cause Ectropion which is the opposite of Entropion causing eye lids to roll outward. We made the decision when the Entropion kept re-occurring to keep her on drops and ointment for the rest of her life. Surgeries themselves are dangerous for bulldogs, especially Maddie who has a trachea the size of a 15 pound dog! (she weighs 45lbs.)Talk to your vet about steroid drops and Optimmune ointment or Cyclosporine drops. The steroids help with the swelling and corneal scarring while the Cyclosporine helps with dry eye. Some over the counter ointments and drops can help, but you have to keep re-applying them in all day long. Hope this helps a little. Every bullie is so different, and this is the course we have decided to take. Oh, and try another vet!

Connie

he feels that since you have had the surgery you might want to try going holistic....borax and calcarea carbonica are very good for entropian....but always consult with with a holistic vet first...good luck in any direction you take....

he feels that since you have had the surgery you might want to try going holistic....borax and calcarea carbonica are very good for entropian....but always consult with with a holistic vet first...good luck in any direction you take....

hopefully one of these organisations can help




http://www.pghdogs.com/index.php?option=com_bookmarks&Itemid=70&catid=177

http://www.mts.net/~bittybul/
If you breed....rescue

hopefully one of these organisations can help




http://www.pghdogs.com/index.php?option=com_bookmarks&Itemid=70&catid=177

http://www.mts.net/~bittybul/
If you breed....rescue

entropian is one thing. This is when the bottom or top lids roll in towards the eye and can scratch the surface but it sounds as if you may be refering to distichias which usually can reoccur.

here is a link about it..
http://www.petplace.com/dogs/distichiasis/page1.aspx
Most of the time the eye lashes are frozen or lasered off. But it often takes a few times for it to be successful. Some vets will pluck them with tweezers and i know some who pluck themselves after a few grow back post op.

If it was entropian surgery- in which they r sometimes remove a small portion of the skin/lids and "tack" the lids ... then i would be speaking with my vet about this because that means he did a poor job on this surgery and shouldnt charge you the full price for a second entroian surgery. Entropian can occur on both top and bottom lids.

http://www.animaleyecare.net/diseases/canine.htm

Eyes are not something to put off because if left untreated can lead to blindness. Can you check into Care Credit or some type of financing that the vets offer (payment plans, low to no interest etc)



Rhiann,Mia,Roland and Oy
RIP Samson & Karma

Foster mom to:
Chloe-10
Angel- 9
Blaze-6
Dante- 6?
Candy-3

entropian is one thing. This is when the bottom or top lids roll in towards the eye and can scratch the surface but it sounds as if you may be refering to distichias which usually can reoccur.

here is a link about it..
http://www.petplace.com/dogs/distichiasis/page1.aspx
Most of the time the eye lashes are frozen or lasered off. But it often takes a few times for it to be successful. Some vets will pluck them with tweezers and i know some who pluck themselves after a few grow back post op.

If it was entropian surgery- in which they r sometimes remove a small portion of the skin/lids and "tack" the lids ... then i would be speaking with my vet about this because that means he did a poor job on this surgery and shouldnt charge you the full price for a second entroian surgery. Entropian can occur on both top and bottom lids.

http://www.animaleyecare.net/diseases/canine.htm

Eyes are not something to put off because if left untreated can lead to blindness. Can you check into Care Credit or some type of financing that the vets offer (payment plans, low to no interest etc)



Rhiann,Mia,Roland and Oy
RIP Samson & Karma

Foster mom to:
Chloe-10
Angel- 9
Blaze-6
Dante- 6?
Candy-3

i would get my records....and have someone go over them not a vet...you may have grounds to get some money back...but entropian is a very tricky surgery...any time i needed it done i always had my vet take more than needed so the lower lid was pulled down....skin is very elastic and will fold back in.....
if you can find some one to just tack the lower lid with a couple of stiches that will help with the entropian for a few months...as for the hair under the eye lid...that i dont know....i would use artifial tears every day...to sooth them use it like three or foru times a day....
good luck....

i would get my records....and have someone go over them not a vet...you may have grounds to get some money back...but entropian is a very tricky surgery...any time i needed it done i always had my vet take more than needed so the lower lid was pulled down....skin is very elastic and will fold back in.....
if you can find some one to just tack the lower lid with a couple of stiches that will help with the entropian for a few months...as for the hair under the eye lid...that i dont know....i would use artifial tears every day...to sooth them use it like three or foru times a day....
good luck....

Elaine gave you a fairly detailed explaination...I will only add that it is FAR better for your vet to not take enough skin in the first round of surgical correction, than to take too much and end up with the opposite and ectropion. I had a rescue with ectropion from over correction and it was HORRIFIC! There should be some sort of leeway in regards to how much you should pay for a repeat correction. Simply ask if your vet is willing to let you only pay for the anesthesia since the dog was under corrected in the first place. Most will be willing to do this. As stated...the skin does not re grow...once it's gone, it's gone. That would be a nice after thought for the ones that have been over corrected though.

Elaine gave you a fairly detailed explaination...I will only add that it is FAR better for your vet to not take enough skin in the first round of surgical correction, than to take too much and end up with the opposite and ectropion. I had a rescue with ectropion from over correction and it was HORRIFIC! There should be some sort of leeway in regards to how much you should pay for a repeat correction. Simply ask if your vet is willing to let you only pay for the anesthesia since the dog was under corrected in the first place. Most will be willing to do this. As stated...the skin does not re grow...once it's gone, it's gone. That would be a nice after thought for the ones that have been over corrected though.

I am so sorry that you and your bully are having a difficult time with his eye health. There are several points I would like to make and please understand that I don't mean to sound critical; just expressing my opinions. First of all, I don't know how long the vet kept you returning regarding the need for entropion and distichia procedures, and whether they were addressed at the same time as the cherry eye, but having said all that the $2800 you have spent on eye problems to date sounds HIGH to me, considering this is a general medicine practice (presumable, else you would have said otherwise). Now that the vet has not done a satisfactory job with the entropion problem, he is referring you out to a specialist...something that probably should have been done previously. Yes, specialists are more expensive than general medicine practices, but these docs have completed two more years (or more) of education, passed additional exams and that expertise is reflected in the cost of their services. If its like the ophthalmic specialty practice I worked for, the instruments we use are much more costly, the entire surgical process from specialty drugs used to follow-up care is more intense and YOU pay for it. With little exception, the eyelid doesn't grow more to the point of needing a second entropion surgery unless it was done on a very young dog...true the face can change if the dog's weight changes by 20lbs+ and if accompanied by the droop of aging, I might see a need to redo an eyelid on an 8 or 10yr old dog that was 'minimal need' at age 2 or 3, but now is a problem...but too often a general vet is not skilled to the point of doing the precise job that a specialist will do. And with distichia (ingrown lashes) the vet can miss a couple doing the cryo procedure, or laser procedure, but usually those couple can be plucked out and the dog doesn't need to undergo anesthesia once again...so cost should only be an office visit, IMHO.

I have a list of organizations that will help with vet medical bills in some cases. In cases where the vision of the eye is truly threatened, you can apply on that basis, perhaps with a note from your vet stating that the surgery needs to be done to preserve vision, and see if you can get some assistance, but they generally don't pay for the entire bill anyway. Its worth trying!

For the short-term you can minimize the rubbing of the eyelashes on the cornea (ie, avoiding as much as possible an ulcer) by keeping the eye lubricated well. Can you get some Lacrilube or similar from your local pharmacy (non Rx) or buy a few tubes online (fairly inexpensive online, under $5) and put that in 3-4xday.

If you do go to the specialist, to get the estimate of all of what the dog needs, and the cost, do ask about a payment plan. Some offices will allow you to pay it out with pre-dated monthly checks or credit card slips...worth asking. And I see no shame in saying that this is very difficult for you financially and any discounts they could extend would be most appreciated.

I am so sorry that you and your bully are having a difficult time with his eye health. There are several points I would like to make and please understand that I don't mean to sound critical; just expressing my opinions. First of all, I don't know how long the vet kept you returning regarding the need for entropion and distichia procedures, and whether they were addressed at the same time as the cherry eye, but having said all that the $2800 you have spent on eye problems to date sounds HIGH to me, considering this is a general medicine practice (presumable, else you would have said otherwise). Now that the vet has not done a satisfactory job with the entropion problem, he is referring you out to a specialist...something that probably should have been done previously. Yes, specialists are more expensive than general medicine practices, but these docs have completed two more years (or more) of education, passed additional exams and that expertise is reflected in the cost of their services. If its like the ophthalmic specialty practice I worked for, the instruments we use are much more costly, the entire surgical process from specialty drugs used to follow-up care is more intense and YOU pay for it. With little exception, the eyelid doesn't grow more to the point of needing a second entropion surgery unless it was done on a very young dog...true the face can change if the dog's weight changes by 20lbs+ and if accompanied by the droop of aging, I might see a need to redo an eyelid on an 8 or 10yr old dog that was 'minimal need' at age 2 or 3, but now is a problem...but too often a general vet is not skilled to the point of doing the precise job that a specialist will do. And with distichia (ingrown lashes) the vet can miss a couple doing the cryo procedure, or laser procedure, but usually those couple can be plucked out and the dog doesn't need to undergo anesthesia once again...so cost should only be an office visit, IMHO.

I have a list of organizations that will help with vet medical bills in some cases. In cases where the vision of the eye is truly threatened, you can apply on that basis, perhaps with a note from your vet stating that the surgery needs to be done to preserve vision, and see if you can get some assistance, but they generally don't pay for the entire bill anyway. Its worth trying!

For the short-term you can minimize the rubbing of the eyelashes on the cornea (ie, avoiding as much as possible an ulcer) by keeping the eye lubricated well. Can you get some Lacrilube or similar from your local pharmacy (non Rx) or buy a few tubes online (fairly inexpensive online, under $5) and put that in 3-4xday.

If you do go to the specialist, to get the estimate of all of what the dog needs, and the cost, do ask about a payment plan. Some offices will allow you to pay it out with pre-dated monthly checks or credit card slips...worth asking. And I see no shame in saying that this is very difficult for you financially and any discounts they could extend would be most appreciated.